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Post by Angel Martin on Feb 4, 2006 7:24:17 GMT -6
Lacrimosa can wrist pick those spasmic trems. Or am I wrong here?
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Post by Willjay on Feb 4, 2006 8:39:43 GMT -6
Hey all, There are already permanent threads dedicated to MAB and Jim '260' Gilliette.  How about making one for Willjay to put information/instruction about great picking technique, questions for him and future research/projects from him, etc.   What do you think mods, Debmeister, MAB???   And are you up for it, Willjay?? Maybe a "Willjay's corner", "Willjay's archive", "Picking Willjay alternately" or something..... ;D ;D Naaaaaaah, thanks for the thought though!  ;D I think i`ve done my bit with this now, i just really wanted to try and put a stop to people all round the net making silly guesses or `claims` all the time about how fast they thought guitarists were playing, even when they were waaay out! I mean, seriously, when i started `hanging out` on guitar forums about a year and a half ago there were soooooo many ridiculous speed threads and speed claims that (to me) were so false and far fetched, even though people were making these claims as fact. I set out to show people that if they are interested to know how fast guitarists are playing, or who is the fastest etc. then there is a science and an art to it, and no need for all the guesswork anymore! In general i feel like that has changed quite a lot in the last year or so, i`d like to think i`ve helped that change come about. Willie Jordan. |
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Post by Angel Martin on Feb 4, 2006 10:16:00 GMT -6
Any chance for excepting submissions, or do I *** to much? =P
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Post by Willjay on Feb 4, 2006 10:22:59 GMT -6
I was more surprised to see that Yngwie and Mike max out at the same speed, a killer 16. Which is pretty interesting when you really think about it, since Yngwie himself said mike was faster. Actually, it`s not as straight forward as that. Like i said, one of the main things i learned from doing this is that you could get a load of guitarists that can all pick the `same amount` of notes in a second, but that alone doesn`t automatically put them all on the same level of accuracy/articulation etc. Yngwie can reach quite a bit of speed picking 3 notes per string, maybe the same as Mike, but IMO Mike`s picking is slightly more advanced because he seems to be able to pick more shapes/patterns at high speed than Yngwie, i`m not talking about musicality or taste here (personally i like `em both ;D) just picking ability. For example, when picking that lick everyone does where you pick 3 notes on the lower string, then 1 note on the next (higher) string, then back to those 3 frets on the lower string, that IMO is a bigger test of picking ability than just doing 3 notes on both strings, because you only cross over to pick 1 note , then you have to `cross over` again, so you don`t really get time to `get comfortable` picking notes on that high string. When Yngwie picks that lick (as he did in one of my 1 second examples, clip 10) he maxes out at about 15 nps, even then his picking hand seemed to have trouble keeping up with the crossovers at that speed. Mike manages to alt pick that same shape lick, but instead string skipping over 4 strings to pick that 1 note, with more accuracy, at 16 nps. So like i said, when you`re talking about skill level with fast alternate picking, there`s more to it than just how many notes are being played in a second, but you guys will be able to hear that from listening to those slowed down clips. Personally i take a few things into consideration when trying to judge the actual picking skill involved. There`s how fast? How accurate/articulate? And how difficult the actualy lick/shape/pattern being played is? Then something more difficult and rare than those is when some people even manage to phrase notes at that speed. For example, i know that John McLaughlin and Paul Gilbert often put accents on certain notes even during high speed runs, or switch between picking light, to picking heavier during a fast run. Willie J. |
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Post by Angel Martin on Feb 4, 2006 10:30:50 GMT -6
Great post, I feel the same way. Mike is over all faster in being able to play certain things then yngwie. You know, it doesnt matter who is faster between the two to be honest. They both have a strong presence in shred and that is the most important thing.
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Post by odracir on Feb 4, 2006 12:45:48 GMT -6
Now, willie, if you want of course, what about adding sweeping clips? I don't think it could be too hard to clock, cause when you'r sweeping you have to use the pick and it can be picked up by the amp too, just like with the alt. picking runs. For example, a question could start this way: in the Suspension tabs by F. Fareri (and you cand find it on his website) there's a burst of arpeggios played in 32nd in groups of 6 at 165bpm, that it is 33 nps. Isn't it too exagerated?
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Post by Willjay on Feb 4, 2006 12:49:47 GMT -6
This is pretty cool!! I still think the fast 19 nps Shawn Lane (diminished lick) is the sickest of all! (And the odracir's one, probably the fastest trem. I've ever heard!!). Willjay: what song is the fast 19nps Shawn Lane clip from (the diminished one!)? Awesome stuff!! Depends which one you mean? One of the 19 nps diminished licks is from audio i took from Shawn`s second REH video (Power Solos) during his guitar solo. The other 19 nps diminished lick is from Shawn`s solo during `Rice with the Angels` from a bootleg recording of Shawn/Jonas Hellborg/Jeff Sipe at `Quasimodo, Germany - 9th May 1996`. I would upload that full (amazing  ) track, but my CD/DVD drive is broke at the moment, so i can`t rip/burn anything at the moment.  I do have a slightly bigger clip of it though, and a `looped` version of the fastest part of that lick (to hear how it would have sounded if he kept going, and to check it to the metronome). I`ve just put a few slightly bigger Shawn Lane alt picking clips together in a zipped filed : s42.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1H9JER9C4C7GI0949968FJSM7DThis is pretty cool!! I still think the fast 19 nps Shawn Lane (diminished lick) is the sickest of all! (And the odracir's one, probably the fastest trem. I've ever heard!!). Willjay: what song is the fast 19nps Shawn Lane clip from (the diminished one!)? Awesome stuff!! you forgot to say you can ply that stuff ! that diminished lick So can i, but not at 190 bpm, 19 nps! ;D Willie J. |
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Post by odracir on Feb 4, 2006 14:31:59 GMT -6
I was thinking if Shawn Lane could do that Bishop's gimmick done in Alien 2 when the cyborg uses a knife to impress the troops.
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Post by Willjay on Feb 4, 2006 14:48:02 GMT -6
I was thinking if Shawn Lane could do that Bishop's gimmick done in Alien 2 when the cyborg uses a knife to impress the troops. Ha!! ;D Well, actually, there was one pretty cool thing Shawn could do (other than guitar/piano/drums/music etc)! In case you weren`t around when i posted this, have a read of this acount by (an amazing guitarist) Alex Masi about the first time he met Shawn back in 1988 (maybe around the same time Mike met Shawn) : *Quote Alex Masi : "I told the story of the first time i met shawn somewhere else awhile back...there's a picture of our first meeting on my website as well...anyway, back in 1988 i was in memphis for a gig while touring with my band...i had heard shawn's famous demo already and so during soundcheck i asked the people at the theater if anybody could put me in touch with him...fast forward hours later after the show back at the hotel with a party in full swing around 2am the phone in my room rings and it's shawn asking me if it would be alright to come and hang out...half hour later he showed up with a friend...it was kinda funny cause shawn looked quite different back then...he had long hair but no beard, with a baby face, a nerdy sweater and some funny looking shorts on...i remember thinking "is this really the monster i heard on that tape???"... i had a couple of guitars in the room but our road manager had left the practice amps in the truck so shawn picked up my charvel and started playing unplugged... imagine this scene: there are about 30 people, guys and girls, drinking etc lots of noise and even some tape being played from a stereo... well, even unplugged shawn's left hand fingers were so strong that you could hear them slamming on the frets above all the noise in the entire suite... now the funny thing was that at one point everyone stopped talking etc and started looking with disbelief at shawn... i was almost in a trance looking at this wonder of nature sitting on the bed across from me doing things i had no idea could be done on the guitar... i also had a guitar on me and i remember shawn putting his hand on my right shoulder and saying "don't be tense here, let it come from the wrist"... we spent hours talking about everything from rare european beers to northern european renaissance to jaco pastorius to holdsworth to zappa to pollini etc... ha had also taken the time before coming to see me to prepare 2 tapes he felt i needed to have, one was super rare recordings of charlie parker and art tatum and the other was of von karajan conducting beethoven's missa solemnis (which shawn knew by heart)... around 8am when almost everyone had fallen asleep around us him and his friend said they were going to leave so we agreed to exchange phone numbers and addresses... at this point his friend asked me for 2 pens and 2 pieces of paper...shawn was like "oh comeon, this is silly" but his friend was adamant that i had to see this... so i got him the pens and papers... shawn then started writing his address with his right hand and his phone number with the left AT THE SAME TIME!!!!.... i remember i just started laughing thinking i had just met an alien... from that day on i've felt i was given the gift of meeting a true bona fide genius...something that doesn't happen to everybody. peace to my friend shawn lane." |
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Post by lacrimosa on Feb 5, 2006 11:13:49 GMT -6
This is pretty cool!! I still think the fast 19 nps Shawn Lane (diminished lick) is the sickest of all! (And the odracir's one, probably the fastest trem. I've ever heard!!). Willjay: what song is the fast 19nps Shawn Lane clip from (the diminished one!)? Awesome stuff!! cmonn Willjay...I know you know it!!! |
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Post by lacrimosa on Feb 5, 2006 11:15:38 GMT -6
Lacrimosa can wrist pick those spasmic trems. Or am I wrong here? yeah, 16th note triplets @ 190 bpm (=19nps). But I can't play anything at that speed though. I can play some diminished licks @ 170 bpm (16 note triplets). |
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Post by Willjay on Feb 5, 2006 11:20:57 GMT -6
This is pretty cool!! I still think the fast 19 nps Shawn Lane (diminished lick) is the sickest of all! (And the odracir's one, probably the fastest trem. I've ever heard!!). Willjay: what song is the fast 19nps Shawn Lane clip from (the diminished one!)? Awesome stuff!! cmonn Willjay...I know you know it!!! I answered you to that just a few posts up! /\ Lacrimosa can wrist pick those spasmic trems. Or am I wrong here? yeah, 16th note triplets @ 190 bpm (=19nps). But I can't play anything at that speed though. I can play some diminished licks @ 170 bpm (16 note triplets). Well, you know what you have to do now! ;D So anyway, what CAN you pick at 19 nps? Are you just talking about tremelo picking on 1 string? Willie Jordan. |
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Post by lacrimosa on Feb 5, 2006 11:26:19 GMT -6
sorry, I must be drunk or something!! It's the one with the drums in it, the first 19nps clip. Thanks for the clip man!! Later edit: the 190bpm 16th note triplets is just tremelo picking, nothing spectacular. I posted some 18nps clips a while ago, but I can do it 19nps too! Cya |
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Post by Willjay on Feb 5, 2006 11:30:24 GMT -6
sorry, I must be drunk or something!! It's the one with the drums in it, the first 19nps clip. Thanks for the clip man!! Ha! ;D Yeah, that`s from Shawn`s solo during `Rice with the Angels` from a bootleg recording of Shawn Lane/Jonas Hellborg/Jeff Sipe at `Quasimodo, Germany - 9th May 1996`.  Willie J. |
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Post by Willjay on Feb 5, 2006 11:38:28 GMT -6
edit: the 190bpm 16th note triplets is just tremelo picking, nothing spectacular. I posted some 18nps clips a while ago, but I can do it 19nps too! You wouldn`t by any chance mean this fast picking clip you posted a while back? : s64.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2R9COJXG8A07X24TD5QGONDQISIs that the one where you claim to be picking at 18 nps, if so i`ll clock it. If not, then could you please post a clip of you alt picking actual shapes, while crossing over strings at some point, as fast and accurate as you possibly can, and i`ll tell you exactly what your fastest accurate picking clocks in at! Also, could you make sure you record it without delay/echo/reverb etc. Cheers. Willie Vanillie. ;D |
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Post by lacrimosa on Feb 5, 2006 12:21:27 GMT -6
nonononooo that's not the one!!! That wouldn't be close to it !! I've posted the 18nps clip several times here though. |
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Post by Willjay on Feb 5, 2006 12:36:47 GMT -6
nonononooo that's not the one!!! That wouldn't be close to it !! I've posted the 18nps clip several times here though. Oh, yeah, i think i remember that one. I couldn`t clock it because it had way too much echo. Well, any chance you could refer to my last post (and post a new clip, without echo/reverb, as fast as you can do accurate.)? |
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Post by lacrimosa on Feb 5, 2006 12:47:01 GMT -6
it was a tremelo mp3 clip (the 18nps one). The problem is I formatted my pc, so I have to record it again.
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Post by Willjay on Feb 5, 2006 13:24:45 GMT -6
it was a tremelo mp3 clip (the 18nps one). The problem is I formatted my pc, so I have to record it again. Hey, no problem. Just post it sometime when you get time. |
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Post by lacrimosa on Feb 5, 2006 13:25:53 GMT -6
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fdutra
New Member
Hadoooouken!!!!
Posts: 16
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Post by fdutra on Feb 5, 2006 13:47:42 GMT -6
good job
Tiago Della Vega is a joke when he sais he does 40nps
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Post by Bloodline on Feb 5, 2006 13:58:21 GMT -6
there's this guy who can do 30 nps who i know ! amazing
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Post by Willjay on Feb 5, 2006 13:59:26 GMT -6
;D I don`t know how you calculated the ".4" in that, the only way i normally work out if something is a very obscure and exact speed (such as ".1", ".4", ".7", ".9" etc) is if it is a repeating pattern of notes that i can match to an exact speed of the metronome. Otherwise if i`m just counting the notes by ear, by listening to a slowed down clip, i normally just count by half notes (eg. "16.5 nps") or full notes (eg. "15.0 nps"). This is because i presonally don`t like to pretend that i can hear `exactly` and mathmatically how much of a note is being played. Apart from that, your clip only sounded like about 20 nps to me, and the last note only sounded like half a note `compared to the length of the rest of the notes`, so maybe then that would class as `about` 19.5 nps. It`s close enopugh to 20 nps though. ;D We already know now that it`s possible to tremelo pick over 20 nps using the `spasmic arm vibration` method, so now i just wonder what is the fastest you can pick an actual pattern, with string changes involved, accurately, while using `controlled` picking? Feel free to post some clips when you get time. PS. It`s been a while since you`ve posted some of your songs. I still have some of your recordings you posted over at the JP forum ages ago. Willie J. |
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Post by lacrimosa on Feb 5, 2006 14:08:54 GMT -6
there's this guy who can do 30 nps who i know ! amazing yeah the Korn guitarplayers can do that!!!!!111 (ja ik heb je niet geblokeerd jij sufkut, ben ff stiekem naar boven gekomen ) Willjay, you're probably right!! anyway, I can do even faster...tomorrow I'll post a clip. I have to go study again cyaaaa |
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Post by odracir on Feb 5, 2006 14:10:47 GMT -6
Hey willie, i asked you what about clocking sweeping parts. I wanna know if that 33 nps sweeping runs by Fareri are true. (every time i pay attemption to that section i can't hear nothing really clear or clean).
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