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Post by Adji on Jul 7, 2005 15:50:03 GMT -6
a controversial comment here: racism is overrated, but thats not what this topic is about.
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Post by dangerousdave on Jul 7, 2005 16:41:45 GMT -6
I think it was Voodoo who said, the Americans try to make the middle east more like the US and for some reason they complain. Well I think that is one of the reasons that they do complain, that people from other cultures don't want American culture forced upon them. Also I don't think it is at all caled for the refer to a large majority of the world's holy book as "stupid". I'm not defending terrorists, but there are a lot of peace loving people who would find that very offensive. Also Wyldestallion, although you are basically right about G8, this year is not dedicated to African poverty, that is just one fo the issues on the agenda.
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Post by DarkMusicAngel on Jul 7, 2005 16:44:40 GMT -6
My mum was in london when the attacks happened. I have been on the phone all day tryign to get ahold of her and thankfully I managed to get her on her mobile to learn that she is coming home on the half 6 flight out of london. I am glad my mum is ok but I do feel sorry for the people who are injured and those 33 people who lost their lifes. Thank goodness your mother's alright. I'm very sorry for every innocent victims
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Post by Man Of Shred on Jul 7, 2005 18:52:15 GMT -6
That really ***s this had to happen. the thing is. people are talking about fear based tactics for control. some governements (i dare not name), terrorise other countries. terrorists terrorise other countries. and are the people who started this are the ones to pay? no. its always innocent people that die.
but hey you know whats an equal tragedy? the fact that the US are still fighting a war in iraq and that iraqui people are suffering for it. so hey, I'm just saying ALL of it is a tragedy.
I hope i didn't offend anyone by my short rant. if your going to flame me, flame my email address. leave that off the board.
i just pray that innocent people should suffer no longer:(
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Post by themaidenmaniac on Jul 9, 2005 15:42:37 GMT -6
Im not even gonna get started on this subject, as i'd go man overboard!
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Post by BossMorley on Jul 9, 2005 19:52:30 GMT -6
I just hope that the U.S. can wipe out all the terrorist groups so these evil things stop happening.
Adam
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Post by Mr.Tepes on Jul 9, 2005 20:20:25 GMT -6
It's a good dream, but it's never gonna happen.
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Post by BossMorley on Jul 9, 2005 20:32:41 GMT -6
Yeah, it kind of seems impossible because it seems as though there will always be more groups.
Adam
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Post by Man Of Shred on Jul 9, 2005 22:50:32 GMT -6
Ask yourselves this: WHY are there terrorist groups? do you think people just wake up one a day look out the window and say to themselves "gee. what a nice day, think i might wanna be a terrorist from now on"
now unless they've undergone some bizarre brainwashing, thats probly not gonna happen. These people are ANGRY and for very good reasons BUT!. 2 wrongs never make a right. yes, they have been hurt or whatever, but why kill people? thats just bizarre. and wrong.
I think people should resort to peacefull protesting eg Ghandii and Martin luther King. those methods are far more productive in getting rid of opression, and they don't piss too many people off in the process.
But when you see terrorists killing innocent people, maybe even people close to you, and you say "those heartless bastards etc etc". What you must understand is that the system they are fighting against is DESIGNED to promote this. What I'm trying to say is : The West ie. US. UK. , only care about spreading power globally, And if someone opposes that, such as a terrorist group, The west can deal with terrorism in ANY way they want. even if the way they deal with it INCREASES a chance of more terrorist attacks. It just the way it has been designed.
If you agree or even dissagree with me. I challenge you all to educate yourselves in these matters. Read books about this stuff. Watch Bowling for Columbine. There are university sites that have lectures you can watch as a video stream, that talk about this stuff.
please educate yourselves on this if you care about the world your living in. instead of just accepting whats on the surface. Find out for yourselves what the truth is.
moderators, If i said too much. let me know and i won't go on like this again.
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judas
Full Member
Posts: 110
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Post by judas on Jul 10, 2005 7:32:07 GMT -6
" Ask yourselves this: WHY are there terrorist groups? do you think people just wake up one a day look out the window and say to themselves "gee. what a nice day, think i might wanna be a terrorist from now on"
there are terrorist groups because there are religions that instill in their youth a hatred against all but what they believe. they do not "wake up one day and say gee im going to be a terrorist" they are trained to be from birth or at least a very early age. FACT
" now unless they've undergone some bizarre brainwashing, thats probly not gonna happen. These people are ANGRY and for very good reasons BUT!. 2 wrongs never make a right. yes, they have been hurt or whatever, but why kill people? thats just bizarre. and wrong."
they do undergo "bizzare" brainwashing, at least it seems bizzare to myself and other civilised people. see my above comment. and yes killing INNOCENT people is wrong. they do not even try to kill politicians or military objectives, they target the innocent. its not a hatred for our politics or policies that drives them its a hatred for us as a civilisation. ANGRY for very good reasons? thats all about perspective i guess.
" I think people should resort to peacefull protesting eg Ghandii and Martin luther King. those methods are far more productive in getting rid of opression, and they don't piss too many people off in the process.
i totally agree with you. the peacefull protest is far more powerfull and effective.
" But when you see terrorists killing innocent people, maybe even people close to you, and you say "those heartless bastards etc etc". What you must understand is that the system they are fighting against is DESIGNED to promote this.
what? designed by whom? for what purpose? a bunch of world leaders got together one day and over coffee and designed a "system" to purposefully get people to perform terrorist attacks on them? whew. better put yor tin foil hat on so the aliens cant read your thoughts.
What I'm trying to say is : The West ie. US. UK. , only care about spreading power globally, And if someone opposes that, such as a terrorist group, The west can deal with terrorism in ANY way they want. even if the way they deal with it INCREASES a chance of more terrorist attacks. It just the way it has been designed.
the west only care about spreading power globally? hell then i need to stop having tax dollars withdrawn from my pay every week thats part of the billions and biliions of dollars going out in foriegn aid. its a bit tiring listening to everyone saying BS like that. the US is not on some mission to take over the world "spreading power" if it was we would be building resorts and casinos in irag instead of rebuilding it just so we can leave in a few years and it can turn into another country that hates the US. not for the war or for political reasons but again because of religion. the west can deal with terrorists any way we want? well....yes, we can. there are two options give in to them and do what they want to appease them, which only encourages them. or kill them. we chose to kill them. if theres a better solution i cant think of it. and again i would like to meet this person who has the power to design systems that control the policies of the world. sheesh.
" If you agree or even dissagree with me. I challenge you all to educate yourselves in these matters. Read books about this stuff. Watch Bowling for Columbine. There are university sites that have lectures you can watch as a video stream, that talk about this stuff"
watch bowling for columbine for educational purposes? you have got to be kidding. as far as universities and lectures there are just as many that support my veiws as there are that support yours even though our educational system promotes a system of socialism that does not reflect the values of our society at large.
" please educate yourselves on this if you care about the world your living in. instead of just accepting whats on the surface. Find out for yourselves what the truth is."
agreed. but make sure of your facts before you try to start educating other people.
" moderators, If i said too much. let me know and i won't go on like this again."
ditto
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Post by Adji on Jul 10, 2005 10:07:56 GMT -6
I just hope that the U.S. can wipe out all the terrorist groups so these evil things stop happening. Adam There will always be terrorist, jsut like theyre will always be beer, mm beer.
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Post by themaidenmaniac on Jul 10, 2005 10:50:10 GMT -6
Its the Ku Klux Klan Deb
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Post by BossMorley on Jul 10, 2005 12:18:43 GMT -6
Its the Ku Klux Klan Deb Nice catch!!! lol Adam
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Andydl
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by Andydl on Jul 10, 2005 15:37:20 GMT -6
A fundemental change in foreign policies by the UK and the US is needed to wipe out this kind of violence. An all out military victory is impossible and the western countries must face up to this reality. They way to defeat this terrorism is to destroy the root causes of it,ie Western terrorism. The fact is that these bombers were probably born and bred in Britain. The British Government has to examine the reasons why these people were able to be recruited by extremists into killing people from their own country, The British government must stop playing into the terrorists hands. If they engage in more wars like Iraq this will only create sympathy for militant extremists and hatred of Western countries throughout the Islamic world. Ether they can destroy the root causes which will stop these groups from being able to recruit people thus ending these groups ability to function or they continue to believe that they are defenders of the free world fighting to eradicate evil from the world which will only bring more atrocities like the London bombing
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Post by Man Of Shred on Jul 10, 2005 17:29:06 GMT -6
A fundemental change in foreign policies by the UK and the US is needed to wipe out this kind of violence. An all out military victory is impossible and the western countries must face up to this reality. They way to defeat this terrorism is to destroy the root causes of it,ie Western terrorism. The fact is that these bombers were probably born and bred in Britain. The British Government has to examine the reasons why these people were able to be recruited by extremists into killing people from their own country, The British government must stop playing into the terrorists hands. If they engage in more wars like Iraq this will only create sympathy for militant extremists and hatred of Western countries throughout the Islamic world. Either they can destroy the root causes which will stop these groups from being able to recruit people thus ending these groups ability to function or they continue to believe that they are defenders of the free world fighting to eradicate evil from the world which will only bring more atrocities like the London bombing Thats what i was basically trying to say, thanks andy! you see man (to boss) the US ARE terrorists (not us as a whole, but the gov). because there terrorist who bomb stuff are using the SAME tactics taught to them by the US. It's like handing a little kid a gun and then shooting him because he's "armed". Why rebuild iraq? we took out saddam, which is good. we gave them a new government, which is also good. now isn't it up to the iraq people to decide for themselves own to run their OWN country. and Why is there still fighting after all these important changes? not to mention north korea restarted Their nuclear arms only after bush decided to go into iraq. they are afraid. also why is the US only allowed to have weapons of mass destruction? it seems something just doesn't add up here. If you really believe you need to KILL all terrorist 'cause they are evil. than i believe you are subject to the same brainwashing being fed to terrorists. why do i say this is because BOTH the US and Terrorists use the exact same Rhetoric against each other. only one just has a lot more weapons. Yeah. i think its great the US is finally helping out countries in need, but notice it is only after MASSIVE protests... you see it isn't only one person or group of people that needs to be eradicated. IT's the entire system along with fundamentalism(fundamentalism being :one religion is more true than other religions. deb is right in saying every religion should have respect or one another). Cause if not. MANY more INNOCENT people will die.
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Post by Succubus on Jul 11, 2005 4:14:09 GMT -6
A fundemental change in foreign policies by the UK and the US is needed to wipe out this kind of violence. An all out military victory is impossible and the western countries must face up to this reality. They way to defeat this terrorism is to destroy the root causes of it,ie Western terrorism. The fact is that these bombers were probably born and bred in Britain. The British Government has to examine the reasons why these people were able to be recruited by extremists into killing people from their own country, The British government must stop playing into the terrorists hands. If they engage in more wars like Iraq this will only create sympathy for militant extremists and hatred of Western countries throughout the Islamic world. Ether they can destroy the root causes which will stop these groups from being able to recruit people thus ending these groups ability to function or they continue to believe that they are defenders of the free world fighting to eradicate evil from the world which will only bring more atrocities like the London bombing I agree. I was going to make a post like this a couple of days ago but decided against it. Trying to "wipe them out" like in Afghanistan and Iraq is (along with being brainwashed) precisely what fuels their hatred of us.
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wynter
Junior Member
Check out my guitar...
Posts: 78
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Post by wynter on Jul 12, 2005 12:52:20 GMT -6
Homes in West Yorkshire have now been raided in connection with the London bombings. 3 of these homes are just a few minutes walk from my house . It is worrying because no-one seems to have had any suspicions, and it makes me wonder how many more are going to go and do something similar. There is also the possibility that these people may choose to strike closer to home next time.
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Post by Blondie on Jul 12, 2005 15:10:12 GMT -6
Wynter...Said the ol' fashioned way: " You don't *** where You eat"
to the mods....Sorry about my language ;D
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Post by Man Of Shred on Jul 12, 2005 17:31:49 GMT -6
Wynter...Said the ol' fashioned way: " You don't *** where You eat" to the mods....Sorry about my language ;D Well said! Amen brotha!
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Post by Brian on Jul 12, 2005 22:47:16 GMT -6
If I lived in the desert where nothing grows and I lived in a cave or some hut, I'd be pissed too. Think of their educational system there, these people can't be very smart, I'm sure any authority figure of some terrorist group (Al Queida etc etc) would have little difficulty in getting followers out of such uneducated, starving, angry individuals....who perhaps think of their own country and their own needs more than the lives of people who live thousands of miles away who have it better than they do.
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Post by Brian on Jul 12, 2005 23:35:48 GMT -6
Of course, didn't mean to say the whole country is unplugged, but most of the lower population, starving cities, places where some terrorists may or may not have been brought up.
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Post by Succubus on Jul 13, 2005 6:05:16 GMT -6
Turns out now that they were suicide bombers, and they were British. They were middle class, from respectable families. One of them went to Leeds University. It's nothing to do with being poor or badly educated - it is to do with alienation and marginalisation from their own community - including OUR own communities.
Until the networks of extremism here and around the world are stopped from functioning, they will prey on vulnerable youths around the world, not just from the Middle East. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have those indoctrination centres for brainwashing these youths, but that's clearly not the only way they are indoctrinated into extremism. Unfortunately as Baroness Williams said this morning, we've known this since 1993 when the first attack on the WTC killed 5 people, we've heard all the rhetoric before, but we are held hostage by oil. Particularly now that it costs $60 a barrel.
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Post by Succubus on Jul 13, 2005 6:20:24 GMT -6
I think it's almost 90p a litre right now. (I'm in Holland for the month so not entirely certain what it's at right now It's at its highest ever though. Check this BBC report out, it's from 23rd June. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4124810.stm
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Post by Brian on Jul 13, 2005 10:29:04 GMT -6
I pay $2.25 but it'll be going up soon I know it.
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