My List of Fastest Alternate Picking speeds

[lumbogue]

Don't mean to be scrutinizing here, but.................Yngwie, Cooley, and even Ziras???............ they have never played near the speed or fluency Al has: like in this vid at 7:08...........

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4142118223861169944&q=guitar+super+trio

I have not seen many people play at that immense speed (except Lane or Mclaughlin)........ perhaps since it's an acoustic it is not as clear as an electric and hence you are missing some notes...............

okay, thanks anyway

[diabolet]

cooleys never picked like that before? Id say he picks like that daily.... just buy the art of picking or shred guitar manifesto? Acoustics are more clear then distorted guitars.

[S-H]

Todd Duane & Michael Angelo Batio pick as clear & fluent as Al does in that vid. Lane, McLaughlin make up the top 4 IMO of speed AND fluency.

Todd & Mike are above Al IMO. Only just mind you.

[lumbogue]

diabolet said:

cooleys never picked like that before? Id say he picks like that daily.... just buy the art of picking or shred guitar manifesto? Acoustics are more clear then distorted guitars.

He is considerably slower than Al or Lane.

If you pay attention to minute detail and compare closely you will realize this.

[S-H]

Cooley alt picks clean around 16nps.

Lane the same @ 18nps.

Al at his fastest is 15nps. He is clean which is more important but nowhere near Shawn's top speed. He may be a better alt picker than Cooley since he's very clean at only 1nps less but Willie's speeds are as conclusive as possible & Al was none as a live show-off (in a good way) much like Shawn was where their music on album should be musical but live they can show their technical display which is where Willie got the 15nps lick(s) from but Cooley is faster & can go up to 17nps although not that clean.

But i would say that alt picking is harder on an electric although i'm not sure. Players like McLaughlin could probably play the same speed on both types but maybe Lane could hit 20nps on an acoustic since he has an almost perfect "pick to string" angle & execution.

Willie does state on the list that Al Di Meola is very accurate @ 15nps which is 1 million times better than for example- Marcus Paus who's Caspersens Secret Fetish is the aural equivalent of hemeroids & clean pickers sound faster than sloppy pickers who are faster: Di Meola compared to Fareri.


EDIT: Here's Willie's post (word for word) for the top players which i've edited for ya in order of the cleanest-

1-
Shawn Lane - 18 -19 nps (can pick very accurate even up to 18 nps)

2-
Todd Duane - 16.5 - 17 nps (very accurate)

3jt-
John McLaughlin - 16 nps (very accurate....on acoustic!!!!!)
Michael Angelo Batio - 16 nps (very accurate)
Joel Rivard - 16 nps (very accurate)
Tony Macalpine - 16 nps (very accurate)

7jt-
Al Di Meola - 15 nps (very accurate)
Paul Gilbert - 15 nps (very accurate)
Vinnie Moore - 15 nps (very accurate)
John Petrucci - 15 nps (can be very accurate when not simply "tremelo picking")
Jason Becker - 15 nps (can be very accurate)


I've done a Top-20 on my youtube page & i've done it with pretty accurate players like Govan & Romeo included but this list above is probably a "Best of the Best" alternate pickers @ 15nps+.

The top 4 players have been my favourite 4 alternate pickers since i could define clean against slop. Cooley is pretty clean. It's hard to tell how he rates against say MacAlpine cos he such a heavily distorted tone with some messy fuzzy at occasions.

So once again, thanks Willie!


EDIT 2: This is an example of *** alernate picking (other than the known slop players)-



I'm a better alternate picker than him (believe it or not) at only 1nps slower. Poor playing.


EDIT 3- And some damn near perfect alternate picking & not at full speed.



The pick hand angle is the best. I tried to copy his position but can't so he must be double jointed.

[What's-His-Face]

i think you have way too much time on your hands...time that could be better used shredding!!!

[bleedlimit]

awesome list willjay. why was lane so fast? did he practice alt picking 10 hours/day, or start out really young, or what?

[S-H]

He started guitar when he was 10. He was playing piano for 2 years before so that probably helped his fret hand.

Willie informed me Lane practised his ass off from 12-18 years of age & of course was in Black Oak Arkansas from 14 years old.

So alot of practice early on was probably which helped, he had great co-ordination between his 2 hands from playing piano AND guitar for a number of years & the better your co-ordination, the faster while being clean alt picker you can be which is why Todd Duane is so bad ass too.

I on the other hand practice alt picking for most of the time & i *** so...... Lol.

[diabolet]

yea but during the powers of ten days, he didnt practice at all really!

[S-H]

Well he didn't need to actually practice. He just played long enough to sufficienlty keep his technical limit up.

[bleedlimit]

rivera213 said:

I on the other hand practice alt picking for most of the time & i *** so...... Lol.

don't worry man, i'd trade places with you in a second, i don't even get a chance to *** because i keep injuring my goddamn ring finger and can't even fully practice. but back on topic, interesting stuff, i thought it might have had to do with being a young prodigy.

[diabolet]

Lanes picking isnt double jointed i dont think, i pick the same way as him. The pick is at an up angle rather then down. I am double jointed in my thumbs though.

I was all ready to change my entire picking technique after picking for over a year till i saw power licks!

[S-H]

I meant his wrist. It looks like it rotates a bit when he is at full speed. May be an illusion though.

I dunno who i pick like. Probably a looser Shane Gibson. I tried to do the completely relaxed hand style like Stump, MacAlpine but couldn't. When i get better i'll try it again but although i am quite fast at alt picking i can't put all the subtleties and nuances on like T-Mac & the big boys can.

[Willjay]

GibsonLesPaul : It's funny you should mention these exact two clips... because i've already checked and clocked them both in the past, i even used that Paul Gilbert clip for my NPS Clocking Project... so i already know exactly how fast it is.



(Note : In this post i'll upload all 18 of my audio links to both Speedyshare and TurboUpload.)

gibsonlespaul said:

No i didnt mean the string skipping bit (i know there are 2 notes playes legato on the high e string , but still i think that this is the most difficult part on his solo) . It is the bit where he plays the same thing faster and faster . The final speed is groops of 6 on 160 strictly alternate picked (i may be wrong but i am almost certain)

Here is Paul playing that lick (i edited it together seamlessly with a very similar lick he plays later on in that same solo) :
www.speedyshare.com/618302796.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014799/Paul_Gilbert_-_fast_picking_clip_1.mp3.html


Here is exactly 1 second of that lick you mentioned :
www.speedyshare.com/763504411.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014803/Paul_Gilbert_-_1_second_of_fast_picking.5_nps.mp3.html

Here is that clip slowed down (14.5 nps) :
www.speedyshare.com/374865950.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014811/Paul_Gilbert_-_1_second_of_fast_picking.5_nps.mp3.html


So there you go, it's only around 14.5 nps, not 16 nps.



Here is 1 second of the 2nd picking lick from that solo :
www.speedyshare.com/383482281.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014819/Paul_Gilbert_-_1_second_of_fast_picking_-_clip.mp3.html

Here is that clip slowed down (14 nps) :
www.speedyshare.com/931478354.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014825/Paul_Gilbert_-_1_second_of_fast_picking_-_clip.mp3.html



So that's that solo debunked... now for the next one you mentioned.

gibsonlespaul said:

And as for MAB , on the video Michael Angelo getting carried away(outtakes of speed kills) on the bit after he plays eruption upside down i think he plays a little but faster than 16 nps (probably 16,5 -17) but i am not sure

I checked this very clip out a while back... because at first i thought that it was the usual "alternate picked groups of six" at what sounded like around 16.5 nps (by checking it against a metronome).... but when i studied it carefully, slowed down, i realised it was actually one of Mike's sneakiest licks.... it isn't actually alternate picked, but is actually 5 notes arranged in groups of 6 so that it can be economy picked..... (if you listen to the song "I Do for You" from the "No Boundaries" cd, at 2:31 Mike does the exact same thing there, but repeating it higher and higher up the neck, i was going to include that in my NPS Project as alt picking at 16.5 nps, untill i slowed it down a lot and realised it was economy)!!

There is a tiny portion of that clip that is alternate picked, but i clocked that as well, and (as i'll show) that only clocks in at 16 nps (and i already knew he could pick that fast)...... but the majority of that clip on the video is variations of this economy picked lick (that i don't think i've seen/heard anyone else do....maybe Gambale does something similar??).

Here is a short audio clip of the part of the video you mentioned :
www.speedyshare.com/708652489.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014831/Michael_Angelo_-_Getting_Carried_Away_audio.mp3.html

and here is that clip slowed down, so you can actually hear what he is playing and the technique used :
www.speedyshare.com/463892826.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014841/Michael_Angelo_-_Getting_Carried_Away_audio_.mp3.html



Here's how to play that lick, i've put it into PowerTab (don't forget, this is economy picked, i've included pickstrokes) :
www.speedyshare.com/869128210.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014852/Michael_Angelo_-_Economy_picked_lick_PowerTab.ptb.html



Here is exactly 1 second of the Economy picked section of that clip :
www.speedyshare.com/235127857.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014858/Michael_Angelo_-_1_second_of_fast_Econo.5_nps.mp3.html

Here is that 1 second Economy picked clip slowed down (16.5 nps) :
www.speedyshare.com/995633757.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014869/Michael_Angelo_-_1_second_of_fast_Econo.5_nps.mp3.html



Here is exactly 1 second of the Alternate picked section of that clip :
www.speedyshare.com/686407433.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014878/Michael_Angelo_-_1_second_of_fast_Alt_picking_.mp3.html

Here is that 1 second Alternate picked clip slowed down (16 nps) :
www.speedyshare.com/316805605.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014882/Michael_Angelo_-_1_second_of_fast_Alt_picking_.mp3.html



So there you go, there was no 16.5 - 17 nps alternate picking in that clip...... still very quick though.

lumbogue said:

Don't mean to be scrutinizing here, but.................Yngwie, Cooley, and even Ziras???............ they have never played near the speed or fluency Al has: like in this vid at 7:08...........

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4142118223861169944&q=guitar+super+trio

I have not seen many people play at that immense speed (except Lane or Mclaughlin)........ perhaps since it's an acoustic it is not as clear as an electric and hence you are missing some notes...............

Trust me, i'm not missing any notes..... this will sound quite bold but i'd guess i've maybe slowed down and clocked more fast guitar clips than any other human (i know, it's very sad!! ).
Also, if anything it will be more clear on an acoustic...... nowhere to hide your mistakes


I downloaded that video, and extracted the audio from that section.... here it is :
www.speedyshare.com/448829370.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014891/Al_DiMeola_-_fast_picking_lick.mp3.html


Here is exactly 1 second of that clip :
www.speedyshare.com/768250504.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014895/Al_DiMeola_-_1_second_of_fast_picking_15_nps.mp3.html

Here is that 1 second clip slowed down (15 nps) :
www.speedyshare.com/565580147.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014899/Al_DiMeola_-_1_second_of_fast_picking_slow_.mp3.html


So there you go, Al DiMeola's alt picking in that clip from the video was still just 15 nps..... which is the top speed of pretty much every fast picking clip i've ever clocked from him (except for a few at 14 nps).... Though i will say that i think it's more difficult to alt pick fast on an acoustic.




One more thing (in this humorously large post, LOL)... a few days ago Rivera12345 asked me to clock a picked run by Paul Gilbert in the Racer X song "Miss Mistreater", because apparently according to the Tab for it Paul alt picks a run at 17 nps.... so i clocked it.

Here is the picked run :
www.speedyshare.com/525353132.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014905/Paul_Gilbert_-_fast_picking_lick_from_Miss_Mi.mp3.html


Here is exactly 1 second of that :
www.speedyshare.com/670288394.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014907/Paul_Gilbert_-_1_second_of_fast_picking.5_nps.mp3.html

Here is that 1 second clip slowed down (14.5 nps) :
www.speedyshare.com/694964606.html
d.turboupload.com/d/1014910/Paul_Gilbert_-_1_second_of_fast_picking.5_nps.mp3.html



There you go, he picks the run at 14.5 nps, not 17 nps as the Tab indicated.

So again i've shown here why i don't ever trust someone's Tab alone to work out the speed of a lick on a recording... i prefer to clock the actual recording itself!!



Willie J.

[S-H]

Lol.

I'm gonna change my name to just Rivera.

The 213 was for e-bay.

Yeah that Miss Mistreater lick didn't sound Duane speed & on my cd it is lower in volume than the rest of the song for some reason???

Weird, but yeah- tabs ***!!!! Lol.

I can't slow em down so i learn the licks as written like that lick, so i may end up beating Paul! Muhahahahahahahahahahaha.

If it's faster to alt pick fast on acoustic, then McLaughlin must be equal to about 17-17.5nps on electric???

Both him & Di Meola played electric though i dunno if that makes any difference, but i'm gonna get me an acoustic soon to bring up my alt picking technique.

[tuni3]

willjay, if you have a chance, please clock this dude:

he claims to have been playing around 13 years, and being better than malmsteen.

[tuni3]

that dude is so full of himself. i understand spanish and read some of his comments.

[diabolet]

does that guy know any scales lol?

[S-H]

He aint even that good.

I mean if Yngwie was talking like him then fair enugh cos Yngwie is bad ass, but the Baja California equivalent of Willow doesn't really do it for me!

[tuni3]

i'll try to translate some of his comments(some are in english), i'll post the most outrageous ones.
edit: i didn't translate all of it(just a bit of the beginning).
small letters=my translation,
large,bad grammar,etc=his stuff

"I HAVE BEEN PLAYING 6 YEARS THE ELECTRIC GUITAR, ITS PRACTICE "

“do you have a video to prove you’re better than i?
i don’t want to ask anyone about the way you play. it’s not necessary. i’ll believe when i see. i hope you do play better, then i’ll be able to learn from you."

“check out the other videos in my profile.”

"THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT!!"

"WELL, THIS GUITAR SOLO WAS NOT IMPROVISED, AND WILL BE A GREAT SOLO IN THE FUTURE..."

"VIRTUOSO IS SOMEONE WHO CAN MASTER ALL THE TECHNIQUES IN ONE OF THE BEAUTY ARTS, LIKE MUSIC, DANCE, ESCULPTURE, ETC."

"I PLAY ACOUSTIC GUITAR SINCE I WAS 6 7 YEARS OLD, BUT I STARTED TO PLAY ELECTRIC GUITAR SINCE 6 YEARS AGO, IM 19 "

[lumbogue]

Thanks for the links Willjay!

True, Al is playing 15nps. sorry for doubting you

Although, that run he was playing was more difficult than the other ones you measured (MAB, Gilbert.........) since it was more of a run, rather than a lick played over a few times. If he did it their way, he could easily squeeze in an extre 3 more notes

Besides the point, none of those other players can achieve the same finger equilimbrium and fluency as he can (save for Shawn Lane). You can tell just by looking at his left hand how much control he has, and if you pay attention his fretting technique is extremely simlar to Lane's technique. e.g. moving the hand kind of like a "fan", instead of focusing all his strength on the moving the fingers like most players................... Do you see what I mean?

[diabolet]

Als a sick player. but its easy to sit there and say 'my guys the greatest'. To be able to have a good opinion you'd need to have videos by Cooley and ziras, yngwie and to have heard alot of there playing.

[S-H]

Todd Duane is the best alt picker along with Mike. Both of them do actual runs & while DiMeola is a great player, his top speed IS 15nps whereas Todd is as good if not better alt picker AND 2nps faster.

[lumbogue]

rivera213 said:

Todd Duane is the best alt picker along with Mike. Both of them do actual runs & while DiMeola is a great player, his top speed IS 15nps whereas Todd is as good if not better alt picker AND 2nps faster.

But then speed has different levels of efficiency.

For example, if a player does 15nps at a relaxed well-balanced tempo, oppose to a player like Fareri that does a purported 20nps, who does it clumsily. The 15er is definitely preferable. Especially if the faster player cannot achieve the same level of fluency the slower one did

[lumbogue]

diabolet said:

Als a sick player. but its easy to sit there and say 'my guys the greatest'. To be able to have a good opinion you'd need to have videos by Cooley and ziras, yngwie and to have heard alot of there playing.

To be honest, I'm sure I have seen more vids of Cooley and MAB than I have of Al............. and certainly more than I have seen of Lane. Besides the point, to judge technicality/speed you do not need to see a great deal of their material.

I'm actually not a fan of his music, neither Shawn's. But it's their technique that I am impressed with. my guys are: Hammett, Smith, Murray, Rhoads, Slash, and numerous classical/fingerstylers.........................

I have compared vids between: Cooley, Duane, Ziras, MAB, Al Di, Lane, Yngwie...................... I have no bias toward either one.